Episode 9 

“Yes! Yes! Of course!” Saying ‘yes’ all the time can be thrilling and self-affirming. And it can go a long way to carving out the career you want. Saying yes without boundaries though can be tricky, with unintended consequences.

In this episode, Brandi Yates, a senior L&D professional, shares a moment that, for her, brought about a different way to say yes. Brandi explains how she has borrowed from the healthcare concept of operating at the ‘top of your licence’ as a way to pay more attention to the things that matter to her. And how she has come to understand that it is her job as a leader to let go of things that ultimately present opportunities to others.

She also draws little distinction between Management and Learning.
 

About Brandi

As Associate Vice President of Learning & Development for Ultimate Medical Academy (UMA), Brandi Yates is responsible for the creation, execution, and enhancement of organizational learning and development (L&D) strategy across the institution.

Brandi is a sought-after L&D public speaker, speaking at dozens of conferences like CMP Exchange Series's Contact Center Week, Corporate Learning Network, Women's Conference of Florida, the VR/AR Association (VRARA), and has been featured on an Infopro Learning, Inc podcast. Highlight presentations include leading teams in a virtual world, virtual training and facilitation techniques, employee engagement and retention strategies, pre-boarding, and leveraging adult theory to reshape how we train and develop for the future.

INTRO: Brandi Yates: Last year, I'd already been on five trips by this point in the year. And Jack said, mommy is never home.

Belinda Brummer (host): When we do the things we love, when we spend time on the things that inspire us, it can be hard to say no, to say that's enough without feeling like we are losing a bit of ourselves. But when we do take that leap, when other priorities and inspiration call for our attention, uh, loss is not always what we feel on the other side of no. It is possible that worlds of opportunity can open up for ourselves and for those around us. You are listening to the Managers Moment, and I am your host, Belinda Brummer. In this podcast, we seek to see the person in every situation. My guest today is Brandi Yates from.

Brandi Yates: Tampa, Florida in the United States. Currently, I am the associate vice president of Learning and development at Ultimate Medical Academy, which is an allied healthcare education company based out of Tampa. UMA educates students with a lot of the behind the scenes healthcare roles, so different roles that focus on pharmacy tech, the medical billers and coders. And we also have ground campuses in Florida and also recently acquired a new school called American Institute that's based out of the northeast.

Belinda Brummer (host): Managers are people too, and finding a way through the complexity of building a career, doing what we thrive on, and creating spaces in which others flourished can require and generate moments of resolve. In this episode, Brandi shares one of her moments of resolve and what came of it. But first, a bit about Brandi's professional journey.

Brandi Yates: I've been in Learning and development training pretty much m my whole entire career. So I started out on the phones at a school and then moved into like, coaching and mentoring other team members. And then I got an official training job. And from there have been in the world of L and D, always in an education setting.

Belinda Brummer (host): What sets you up for that? To get into L&D? Because it seems such a strange thing to be so specific about.

Brandi Yates: Uh, yes. So I did not go to school for L and D. That's not what I studied in college or even grad school, but it was something that kind of came organically. My actual first job out of college was in finance. I'm not a finance person at all. It was not fun for me in many aspects, but I wound up helping give the 401K presentations to different audiences and clients that we had. And that was my favourite part of the role. So when I was looking for future opportunities, I didn't look specifically for like, training per se, but I was looking at. I really, really liked this part. What else might I be able to do in this area. And I went to a small, uh, health sciences college that was an on ground like traditional type of campus and I helped students get set up for their clinicals and externships. And I do like give orientations for what to do and what not to do when you're in the operating room or when you're in um, the labour and delivery unit with your different preceptors. So that was unofficially training role and then I worked at a online school and I was an advisor working directly with students and they would ask me to like come in to new hire and talk to the uH, new hires and tell them about my experience and like serve as a mentor. And I did a lot of shadowing and I got asked to apply for a training role when it came up. It's actually funny when I think about it. I was a part of a leadership development programme within the organisation and one of our tasks that we had to complete was like a cumulative project of what have you learned through this experience? Present it back to the leadership team. And I did that presentation and I really enjoyed it. And one of the VPs asked me to come meet with him afterward and said, hey, we're opening up a new site, will you go and train them? And I was like, what? I don't feel prepared at all to do such a thing. Uh, and he said, you did a great job with this presentation, you can totally do it. Connect with the other trainers here, they'll give you all the materials and set you up and do it. And I did. I went to Colorado for two weeks. I uh, trained folks at the new site and I really enjoyed it. And then an official role opened up that I was able to apply for and I've been at my home in L&d ever since.

Belinda Brummer (host): Up, uh, until that point, had you received any formal training or education in training other people?

Brandi Yates: No, none.

Belinda Brummer (host): So the foundation to your l and D career is literally going out there and learning how to train people? Yes, by doing it.

Brandi Yates: Yes. I've gotten a lot of education since then in adult Learning and instructional design and all those types of elements of the field. So I've honed my craft, but uh, at the onset it was just learn by doing, learn by watching others, those types of things.

Belinda Brummer (host): And so at what point then do you move into management?

Brandi Yates: So uh, at that organisation we were growing rapidly so we started setting up training teams at multiple sites in different states across the US and I started to mentor other trainers from other, other sites. So there was about three different people in disparate locations and I would work with them on how to get their new hire set up. Like here's the materials, give them feedback on different elements. And that was like my first unofficial foray into leadership. And then I went to a new organisation and was the only training team member and got to build my career from there. So I started with one team member that then moved to three team members that then moved to uh, five, seven up from there.

Belinda Brummer (host): You were doing all of that mentorship, etcetera. Before this whole notion of remote working was a thing.

Brandi Yates: I was on site working, but remote mentoring. So like, I was in Florida, some folks were in Colorado, other folks were in Arizona. So it was the very early days of Webex and we would have Webex team meetings where we would share slides, talk about how they were going to facilitate the class. It was always kind of a funny dichotomy because our students were always online, but the training we did was always in person, which was very different from like corporate headquarters. Corporate headquarters had a training team that trained all of the ground campuses. So all of their training was remote. So we actually, the organisation started doing remote training before it was uh, a big thing with the pandemic and everyone had to switch to remote training.

Belinda Brummer (host): And so in a mentoring capacity you're doing this remotely. Even so, managing, we know managers really struggle with, you know, managing in a hybrid environment in this new environment. And yet you are doing this already a decade or so ago.

Brandi Yates: Yes, probably 15 years.

Belinda Brummer (host): So again, learning by doing. Yes, no training. No, no training. What is this saying about your profession? You have developed into this profession.

Brandi Yates: Yes.

Belinda Brummer (host): By doing. How does that affect how you as.

Brandi Yates: Trainers, as training professionals ourselves, we know that that's how people actually learn to. So formal education and understanding adult Learning, understanding how people intake information is critical to any L and D role. But I think it really just goes to show and prove that we can't keep it all theoretical with people. People have to actually get their hands dirty in and do it and mess up and learn from their mistakes and be able to like to fail forward and get feedback on those things so they just don't internalise bad habits forever.

Belinda Brummer (host): The Learning process that you've just described or environment you as trainer or Allen D person is creating where somebody can fail, uh, forward, I think you said it is, and learn from that and be coached through that. That all sounds like management to me. So what is the difference between management and Learning? So maybe this is the time to ask you what does management then mean to you?

Brandi Yates: I don't see a tonne of difference between management and Learning. I think as a Learning professional we are teaching people how to, how to use a system at like, brass tacks, but we're also teaching people how to communicate. Uh, we're teaching people how to synthesise information, lots of communication type things. And I really see leadership and management as guidance and support. I see it as pushing your team members outside of their comfort zone, not in a negative way or not to hang them out to dry. But sometimes as leaders, our role is to see something in others that they don't see in themselves and try to bring that out of them.

Belinda Brummer (host): How did you develop into the manager that you are then? What was your Learning journey?

Brandi Yates: I was a part of that leadership Future leaders programme where I got foundational training on management skills, on communication, on building a strategy, on interviewing team members. That was prior to having an official reporting relationship with direct reports. So that was definitely a component of it. And I think I've had multiple mentors throughout my tenure. I think I feel like I have multiple mentors today, officially, unofficially. So I think that was a really good foundation because prior to participating in that programme, I was like, I don't know, management sounds like a lot of trouble. There's a lot of personalities, there's a lot of those elements of things to manage that I didn't. That wasn't my career goal initially. Starting out, I was really into wanting to be a trainer, an individual contributor, honing my craft. And I think that getting a, uh, team member, I really enjoyed the mentorship experience with that we talked about earlier with the folks at the other sites and I got to kind of baby step my way into it. Like, first I had one person and then I had two people. So I had one person to work with and I had great peers and mentors. So throughout I had a leader who said, you need to build a team like this is too much for one person to do. And I was grateful for that. And here are a couple of folks that we don't have to hire new team members in. We can kind of transition people over. So I was able to work with someone who had an interest in doing this, but they weren't a formal l and D specialist. And during that time we figured out a some people were really meant for the l and D role and, and others weren't. I think one of the big kind of AHA's was being a good presenter doesn't equate to being a good trainer. They're two very different skills. Sometimes you're a wonderful speaker and you're a wonderful presenter, but that's very one way communication. Those team members weren't always the greatest at shutting up and engaging others and making it more of a dialogue. It took us a little bit of time to identify folks that excelled at the role and liked it. I think there's also a lot of just misunderstanding of what being a trainer is. Folks see it as well. You're in the classroom and you get to have all this fun and do fun activities because nobody sees all the behind the scenes stuff of all the it set up and all the tickets that have to be entered designing and the detail work that's involved. So I think it was a lot of Learning experience there. And I, and most people hate role play, but I really valued that as a new leader, having a team member. I shared an office with a team member and I would say, okay, I have to have this conversation. I've never had this conversation before. Will you talk it out with me? So I felt more confident and comfortable in having challenging performance based conversations with team members. Telling some of my team members, like, this isn't. This work isn't up to par. Here's where we need to change it. Here's where we need to update it. These are things that you shouldn't say to a group full of new hires. You're shutting the room down by saying, no. That was a wrong answer. And I did a lot of sharing with them, like things that I messed up. On my first practise teaching, someone gave an outlandish answer and I. I responded to them in, like, the most sarcastic. I was like, oh, no. And no one asked a question the entire rest of the class. And my observer was like, you can never, ever do that again. Did you see what happened to the room? Did you see how no one asked any questions because they felt embarrassed? And I was just teaching a couple weeks ago, a group of Managers and associate Managers about doing trainings for their teams and how I epically failed in that situation and that learn from my mistakes. Don't do that to your team. So I think, too, having an understanding with your team members that you're not a perfect person as a, uh, manager, you're a person, too. You've made mistakes. You don't expect them to be perfect. We can take these challenges that we have and things that we overcome and learn and grow from them.

Belinda Brummer (host): Just because you're a good presenter doesn't make you a good trainer. Just because you're a good trainer without feedback from an observer doesn't make you a trainer who is getting better and improving, right?

Brandi Yates: Yeah.

Belinda Brummer (host): And so if I then say so, just because I'm an individual contributor, you know, a high performing individual contributor doesn't mean I'm going to be a good manager of people like me 100%. And so then the question becomes, when you become the manager, who is giving you the feedback that your observer typically gives you? So how did you hone your craft? Where did you get feedback? Feedback from?

Brandi Yates: So I've gotten feedback from my team members of, like, I need more support. I think at, uh, the onset of my career in management, I was very, very concerned about not being a micromanager, which made me sometimes under lead.

Belinda Brummer (host): Why were you concerned about that? Where did that come from?

Brandi Yates: I had a, as a team member, I had an experience with a micromanager, and it was the most miserable work, uh, experience of my career. And I never, ever wanted to put another person in that place. So I was, like, so worried about not doing it myself that at the onset, I gave people a little bit too much leeway, and I had a team member say, I need more feedback from you. You're nice. I enjoy working with you, but I need you to be more critical and help me grow. So that was a, that was a good, aha, uh, Moment for me of like, wait a minute, this is very different. And then I got certified in, like, situational leadership, learning about how we need to lead people differently at different levels of their tenure and different levels of their career. And that really, I think that was a foundational. I really enjoyed. I enjoyed teaching that class, and I think as a leader myself, that was a, uh, really helpful perspective on it. And the paradigm we get in with our high performers of, like, well, they don't need us. They got this and that. They can begin to feel the most neglected and burnt out if we don't spend time with them. We want to give people autonomy and support them at the same time. The one is not disparate from the other.

Belinda Brummer (host): So you're getting feedback from your team. You're looking for it, you're asking for it. Where do you go to get better at what you're doing?

Brandi Yates: I've had great leadership throughout my career. My last three or four leaders were all women. And that was kind of the first time in my career that that had happened. And I think that they really helped to support and push me and helped me to see where things could go, not just where they were today.

Belinda Brummer (host): Why do you point out that they were female leaders?

Brandi Yates: I think that I had a challenge when I first had my son. I was the employee that, like, I never missed work. I was dependable if you needed me at 08:00 at night or on Saturday morning, like, I was your girl, Belinda. Uh, and when I first had Jack and he went to daycare, he got sick all the time and I had to leave work early and I had to not come into work because I couldn't take him. And I had, like, I was, I'm going to get fired. I'm going to lose my job. I'm not going to be able to do this. I'm not the employee that I was before. A peer of mine today, who was on my team at the time was like, calm down, Brandi. This happens to everyone. The whole, like, daycare germs. Like, no one thinks that you're making up stuff. You have made this up in your head that this is an issue. It isn't really. And it was such a good, like, oh, my god, I'm being a ridiculous person. I just need to talk to people about this. And we looked at how can I shift my schedule a little bit until, like, he can get there for six months and, like, things can level out. It was kind of like a crisis of conscious for me. Like, I really felt like I wasn't. I wasn't being a good mom and I wasn't being a good leader in my role.

Belinda Brummer (host): And so how do the women leaders link to that?

Brandi Yates: I think it was being able to see someone at that level that looked like me, that that was a thing. Uh, at prior companies, I was one of the only girls, period, like, not in a leadership role, just like, on the team around. There wasn't a tonne of women. My mother is an, um, incredibly successful now semi retired woman. So I've had very successful women in my personal life, but I hadn't been around a tonne of women professionally. And I think there's just seeing them be, uh, pleasant and competent and successful and confident. I think it just made me see things in a different way than I could before. And it feels ridiculous that it's 2024 and this is something that we're still talking about. But I think that that's really part of the reason why I've stayed at, uh, my current organisation for so long. There's so many women leaders in the c suite across the organisation, and it's really reflective of the people that we serve were majority women team members, majority women student population, uh, as well. So I think it just puts things into a different perspective for you. And I think the. I don't know who to quote on this, but it's like, if you see it, you can be it.

Belinda Brummer (host): I, uh, picked up on the fact that you said women leaders, but it could be anything. If you see it, you can believe it. And so whatever that is, that identifying characteristic that you pay attention to, if you can see that, it's an easier way for you to visualise that you could do that. And it just happened to be women leaders, in your case. Brandi, have you noticed any themes that have run through your work life that either you keep noticing or that keep showing up that just have a bearing on the professional that you are?

Brandi Yates: Brandy, I think the importance of relationships outside of your individual team or even your individual department has really been a big theme throughout my career, back to when I bust tables and was a waitress. Like, I couldn't lift the big, heavy trays, so I had to make friends with the bus boys, who were much stronger guys than me, and learn about them, talk to them, help them out, make sure I was giving them a little bit more than what our regular tip out was supposed to be, so they would help me do this part of my job that wasn't their responsibility. It wasn't their responsibility. I just was never. I'm not the most coordinated person. I'm notoriously clumsy, and it was just. I could do a lot of things well with that role, but when it came to those big trays, I was just a giant mess. And with the. Even the kitchen, understanding how stressed the chefs were and to never, like, throw them under the bus with. If a, uh, food got wrong, like, it was never going to help me to run into the kitchen and say, what the hell? Why did you do this? It was, can you help me with this? Approaching things in a place of seeking assistance and not calling out and disparaging, I think, has been a theme, and I'll say as, uh, a training professional, we cannot be successful without others. I think with new hire, we have to be best friends with it. We need them. If we don't have equipment out, we cannot successfully do our job. So just really thinking through, who am I going to need? Who can I help so we can all get through this together. The importance of building relationships and not just, hi, I'm Brandi, professional person. You're John in it. Getting to know people across the organisation, being a person that they can reach out to and ask for help for, and I'm not going to be like, oh, my god, get your stuff together. What the hell? That I will help you. When I need help, I'm a call you too. Doing that in different areas across the organisation. I think it is always some of my most favourite parts of my job. Being able to know like, oh, I can always call this person an education if I need something or if I have a question and I think it's really helped, uh, me be a successful team member. I know it. I'm not where I am today because of me and me alone. That's total crap. I would never be where I am without the people that have helped me in my career, my colleagues that have made me look good with technology, with building different things for me, with talking about me in places that. That I'm not in. So I think I really value relationships and I think that that is a, ah, very large part of my success.

Belinda Brummer (host): When I can't be there for myself, you be there for me.

Brandi Yates: Yes.

Belinda Brummer (host): Have you seen that play out in the latter stages of your career so far or the more recent years? And how does that. Because you're in a position of influence now.

Brandi Yates: Yes.

Belinda Brummer (host): Right.

Belinda Brummer (host): That can be seen to be intimidating for people to lean on you or for you to maybe feel like it's a power play when you do that with others. How do you navigate that?

Brandi Yates: Um, so this morning we worked with the multimedia team at our organisation made a video for us and we talked to them about wanting to visualise something and not knowing exactly what we wanted. And they made it in the video better than I could have ever instructed them to do. I would have never come up with what, what they did. So, uh, the first thing I do when I see that is I'm sending that, I'm sending a note to them saying oh my god, this was fantastic. Thank you so, so much. I'm sending that to their leader and I'm um, sending it to their leader's leader saying, hey, just wanted you to know they killed it on this project. Like this was fantastic. I think that a lot of times we get stuck in this loop of criticising everything and not lifting up what is going well. So I definitely make a point to say this new team member that we have in it, security. This has been the best relationship I've ever had with someone in this role prior. Like, just wanted you to know that CIO I make sure to do that for others because I know that that has happened for me in the past and I dont put on airs ever. Like I have an eight year old who pops into my calls sometimes and I let everyone say hi, uh, to Jack. Yesterday in a meeting, I spilled water all over myself in the middle of a call, and I was, sorry, guys. Uh, this is just sorry. I think that being authentic takes some of that away and not acting like you're perfect and everything is perfect, that we're struggling with different things, that we have a lot of projects going on right now and people are stressed. I think when someone, regardless of if you're a vp and they're a frontline team member, if you can make some level of connection with them, if you can, at the end of the day, just see each other as two people, then you'll be able to progress, and that level of intimidation decreases. I'm the least intimidating person alive. I feel like something that you spoke.

Belinda Brummer (host): About in terms of your definition of management. I'd, ah, asked you, so, at this point, what does management mean to you? And you had spoken about guidance and support. You said something about. And it was a lovely way you said it, and you said, the manager's job is to see something in others they don't see, see in themselves and help bring that out.

Brandi Yates: I think about that in terms of myself first. Like, that's kind of how I got where I was, is a leader saw, uh, me do a presentation really well and then put me in a to do training, um, at a different site. And it's the first time I've ever done that, but it's not something I would have ever, like, been like, this is something I would really want to do, or it was really something that got pulled out of me. So I think, uh, some examples of that are I've had, uh, leaders that have worked with me before who are very not excited about presenting, um, or really kind of like, why don't you cover this in the big meeting? And not to put them in situations that they weren't prepared for, but just making sure that letting them know we'll rehearse this, like, you're ready for this. You got it. Sometimes that can be, like, a really intimidating type, uh, of a situation. Like, I'm a manager for a team in a department, and you want me to present at a meeting with leaders from across the organisation. Like, that freaks me out. I'm not. I don't feel comfortable doing that. So, like, let's. We're going to practise. I'm going to make sure you understand your audience and kind of the types of questions different people will ask you, and I'll be there to support you. But I don't want to say this, like, this is going to be better coming from you, and this is a good opportunity for you to be able, uh, to present. And I often find it's our team members who are more kind of quiet, kind of naturally introverted, who have the most valuable things to say. They don't talk just to hear the sound of their own voice, but when they do, it's like, whoa, I need to hear more from you. So what can I do as a leader, as your support, to be able to kind of pull more out of you so others can see what I see, one on one.

Belinda Brummer (host): So that has me asking two questions. Right. Um, the first is, how do you do that? So somebody who is naturally reticent, naturally holds back. How do you pull that out of them then? So you've seen the spark. Do you have an example of maybe when you saw that in somebody, a.

Brandi Yates: Team member who used to be on my team, who now I've gotten back, um, on my team, is. She's very introverted, um, but, my goodness, incredibly smart, very insightful. Uh, and she does fantastic. If you prep her. Like, I know I'm never going to say, hey, in the middle of a meeting, can you add this or give us this additional context? She's not comfortable with that. But if I, the day before the meeting, say, hey, we're going to cover this topic, I would really love for you to add your thoughts around this element, and she can have time to kind of prepare and get ready for it.

Belinda Brummer (host): So, the other thing, when we started talking about this, a lot of the people that I have spoken to on the podcast make account for the fact that you need to pay attention to the quiet person in the room, making space for them, drawing them out, etcetera. Maybe somebody who isn't that quiet person, who is maybe a little bit more extroverted and, uh, more freewheeling, who listens to this podcast might feel actually a little bit discriminated against because people tend not to pay attention to them as managers in these conversations. And so my question to you, then, Brandi, is in the same way that person who loves to or is very. Is very eager to step onto the stage, but sometimes that doesn't help them manage their profile or their contribution well enough. How are you finding that you actually help those people in that environment?

Brandi Yates: So I definitely think that if all meetings were just people talking in the, uh, typing in the chat and typing on a whiteboard would be, like, a very uncomfortable, weird space to be. So I think we need. We need a balance, and I think what we're talking about is, like, how, how can we have team members participate effectively, but not be like, that person that we all know who's like, oh, are they talking again? Really? Again? Um, so that, I think is, that's one on one conversations, um, with your team members, talking to them about making valuable contributions. Um, so some things that, uh, I've suggested to team members before who can have a tendency to, like, want to speak up in every meeting is I need you to, like, write out what make bullets if you, if you want to talk in this meeting, I fully support that as your leader, but I want to make sure you’re coming across as someone who's contributing in a valuable way to the conversation. So think about what you're going to say beforehand. Make bullets. If it's kind of like an extreme case, I'll say, let's talk about it beforehand. Tell me what you're thinking of talking about, and then I can help you, uh, kind of refine that for the audience. What I typically see is that sometimes team members struggle with understanding their audience or new leaders specifically, like, understanding that if you're in a manager meeting with other managers, that is a very different audience than if you're in a meeting with the executives. Like, where do you, how do you cut the detail? And it's, sometimes it's more our, uh, more technical team members. Like, we can't, you can't be going into the nitty gritty details with the executive team. Like, it's just they're not interested in it. Make sure that you're appealing to the interests of the audience that you're serving. And that, I think, is also, too, more important in the virtual setting. Like, we have a lot more of, like, now we're working with this specific group of people, and now you're in front of a different level and really thinking about, who are the people in the room m with you and what do they actually care about? Uh, because some of our internal training processes, the legal team that we're working on, a compliance training, it does not matter to them. They want to know what we're doing. Is it meeting compliance standards? Are we meeting all our accreditor, uh, requirements and things like that? So, really kind of keeping in mind what the people in the room really need.

Belinda Brummer (host): And this, uh, links to something that you said earlier, and that was you were talking about yourself, and you said, you know, you as the manager are a person, too, which is what this podcast is about, about seeing the person, right? So you are a person, too, and what I hear you talking about in this context, what you're actually doing, your response there is whether it's the quiet person or the person who you need to help to make sure that whatever their contribution is, is valuable and does them a service, it's about that individual coaching, the individual expectation setting, helping that person do their best in that Moment. And that is really about personalising that experience for them, seeing them in that Moment and supporting them. And so when you mentioned that management is about guidance and support, there are some really practical things that managers can do. Um, and it takes you to see the person, not just the process.

Brandi Yates: Yes, yes. To see them as a person, and I think to making a safe space for them to ask you for help when they need it. Like, it's not. I'm never going to say, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you want to talk to me before this meeting tomorrow. Like, that's what we're here for, to be able to support and, like, role play something out. If it's your first time having a corrective action conversation with someone, we can talk it out three or four times before you do it. Like, you want to make sure that your team members don't feel like you're going to judge them or look down upon them for asking for help. I say a lot, asking for help is a sign of strength. I think I wrote that in a couple of people's evals this time. Like, it's not. It's not a bad thing for you to want to bounce ideas off of me or other people on our team. Um, I see that very much more as a sign of strength. I tend to get very nervous about you as an employee. If you only want to do everything in your little box by yourself and don't want to engage or get any feedback, that's kind of when I start to get, like, the spidey sense of like, oh, what's going on here? We need to, let's collaborate.

Belinda Brummer (host): Did you know that 59% of 13 to 34 year olds listen to podcasts on a monthly basis? And the percentage of those older than 34 years old who do the same is growing consistently. Now, consider the increasing number of employers using and considering using podcasting to engage and develop their employees. Podcasting, the employee experience is a great idea, but it's tricky to know where to start. Well, I can help. Drop me a message. If you want to talk about collaborating on bringing to life the voices in your organisation, for your organisation to onboard train and inspire your people, you can contact me on belinda@boostlearning.online.

Brandi Yates: I have an issue saying no. I get really excited about everything and I want to do every project and I want to never have someone be mad at me for saying no. And that's something that I have things taped on my thing that say yes to the request, no to the now. Like, I have had to teach myself how to say no in a way that I can be okay with because if I keep, I know it's happened. I kept saying yes to everything and it made me fail at different elements and it made me not give enough attention to certain projects that I should have made me not give enough attention to certain people that I should have, including my family. Like, I, I'm doing less speaking engagements, uh, this year because last year I'd already been on five trips by this point in the year. And Jack said, mommy is never home. That was heartbreaking to me. It was kind of the first year that I started getting a lot of requests to speak and I'm thinking, well, I can't say no to anything. I need to just do everything I can or no one's ever going to want me to do anything. And I had a lot of conferences and we had a lot of in person stuff. And I think I had been to Las Vegas for four things before April in the year. I was travelling a lot and it's not typical for me. It was new and out of the norm and I think it really made me go, oh, crap, I need to think about this in a different way. And I do. It's something I'm working on, but I think I've definitely gotten a little bit better, at least this year. And saying no, I have a real struggle with, like, if somebody asked me to do something or I want to do it, I want to help. And what it made me, uh, kind of really evaluate is like looking at all of the things that I was doing. If it was a conference or if it was a speaking thing, or if it was an in person event, I don't have to do all of these things. Let's really like, look at them and look at Jack's schedule. Like, I'm not going to miss the holiday volunteer party and I'm going to chaperone the field trip. So I like, looked at what are all of the Jack things I know I want to do and I don't want to miss? And then how can I look at these work opportunities in a different way and be like really selective and do the things I really want to do and not do all of them, but give my team members a chance to participate in things that maybe they haven't before. So I had team members at SHRM, I had a team member at ATD. I didn't go myself. This year, I let them take the opportunity and bring it back to the team. And for two of them, it was their first conference experience ever. They had a fantastic time. They loved the experience. And I like going. Like, I'm not going to say I don't, but I don't have to go every year. It doesn't have to be a thing that I do all the time. And I. I'm very thankful, uh, to Jack for saying that before he became resentful to me about not being home. And I have really made an effort to make time for his things first. Like, they're the things that go on the calendar first. And maybe one day he's going to tell me he doesn't want me to chaperone the trip anymore. But until he does, like, that's going to be priority on the calendar before the conference that I've already been to ten times already, that I can give someone else an opportunity. It doesn't always have to be me. And nobody else was telling me that that was all stuff that I put on myself. No one was mad. My leaders weren't like, what do you mean you're not going? And you're sending your team member instead. They were like, oh, that's great. It's great that we're getting our team members more developmental opportunities and we're focusing on their development. So it was all internal pressure from myself. And I think that was also a big wake up call for me, too, that nobody's mad, I'm not going to get in trouble, nobody's going to get upset with me as long as I'm continuing to get all of my work done and be focused on, uh, my leader, our CPO, she talks about in the healthcare space. They're talking about operating at the top of your licence for healthcare. Uh, if you're a nurse, what is the top of your licence? Like, what are the things that only you can do that the medical assistants that the other kind of supportive team members aren't able to do? And she's really put on us to start thinking about our jobs in that way. So, like, what are the things that only Brandi can do? Those are the things that you should always be doing and other things we can look at our team members for. And of course, sometimes you got to jump in and when it's crazy busy. I'm going to be doing training on the new phone system and those things. But really, that's how we should look at prioritising our work and the work of our team members to keep everyone as much in the top of their licence as we can. And I think that's been a really good perspective shift of just how to look at the work and events and opportunities and prioritise them differently than I had before.

Belinda Brummer (host): You've turned this into a leadership opportunity is actually what it sounds like, because by you saying, I'm going to only operate at the top of my licence, you've been able to say, that means I'm letting go of these other things and allowing those to become opportunities for other people. That's the first thing that stands out. The other thing, it sounds like that attitude is the antidote to the manager who even when it's delegated, doesn't let go. And this is about situational leadership, isn't it? It's about how do you choose that? That person can go to the ATD conference on their own, but that person actually needs somebody to go with them and it's about where they are, et cetera. And it sounds like you've incorporated this as a leadership opportunity.

Brandi Yates: Yes, yes. And I think everyone's responded to it very well. Like, if somebody is not interested, I'm never gonna force them to go. But it's. I, uh, haven't had to have that conversation at all yet, of like, well, we just won't have anyone go this year. It's. I want. I always want my team members to have a development opportunity, like, whether it's like a certification class or I project management, something that can help them continue to grow and push forward. And then if these other opportunities come up, I'm definitely going to present it to them. And thus far, I haven't had anyone be like, nope. Really not into that right now. I'm sure it'll happen eventually.

Belinda Brummer (host): So what is Brandi's next growth spurt?

Brandi Yates: I am, um, currently working on prep for my CPTD for ATD, the certified professional in talent development. It's like a, uh, shrm certification for lnd. So I've gotten all my, like, pre rec credits. I've been working on those for the past few years and now I just have to prep for the test. Belinda. It's this giant book of everything about training that you could have to know. So, uh, I'm going to give myself some grace on nothing, making myself feel like I have to pass on the first time because it has a lot of people who don't. But I will, I will get that. That will be something that I'm working towards.

Belinda Brummer (host): This is a journey of years.

Brandi Yates: Yes.

Belinda Brummer (host): That you.

Belinda Brummer (host): What opportunity are you hoping it will open or what doors or what paths should this take you down?

Brandi Yates: Um, my ultimate career goal, I would love to be chief Learning officer at an organisation, maybe my current organisation or somewhere else. L and d is my passion and just all of the amazing growth that we've seen over the. How much the. Just the discipline has shifted and changed and grown. I'm also very interested in AI and its impact and uses within Learning and development. We're in the process of getting a new LMS that has some, um, AI capabilities and personalised Learning that I'm really excited about launching to the. And I really enjoy speaking. So I would definitely, I want to continue doing some speaking events, a few select events a year, and kind of branching out from some of the conferences that I've been speaking at for like a few years, trying to get my feelers out there and expand that a little bit as well.

Belinda Brummer (host): So let's say in 20, 30, 40 years time you've been CLO, you've been speaker, you've done all of these amazing things, you've been that leader that you, you've trained other people to be. What do you want to be known for?

Brandi Yates: I would love for people that have worked for me to say that I really helped and supported them and helped them grow their careers. I hate to see people go, but if someone is leaving for another opportunity, that's a better opportunity than something we have available. I think is that is an amazing feeling for a leader and I think that is like the application effect that you can have as a leader of. How have you put others where you are today?

Belinda Brummer (host): Mhm.

Belinda Brummer (host): We've m come to the end of another episode of The Manager's Moment. Thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed it, there are three things you could do. Let your friends and colleagues know about it. Follow the show and be a part of the conversation and make connections by joining The Manager's Moment club on LinkedIn. The Manager's Moment, seeing the person in this and every Moment. Oh, and a shout out to Boost learning where management development is done differently. To find out more, go to www.boostlearning. online.

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